When Heaven Invades Earth ~ A Practical Guide to a Life of Miracles by Bill Johnson (Bad Fruit)
Biblical Resources: 
You are currently browsing the New Apostolic Reformation/Dominion-Kingdom Now Theology/Third Wave/New Wine Skins/Toronto Blessing/IHOP/New Revelation/Signs & Wonders category.
Biblical Resources:
The Alpha Course by Nicky Gumbel (Bad Fruit)
Biblical Resources:
Deception in the Church’s Exposé, by Sandy Simpson, with a Report on the Singapore Cell Church Model
Apprising Ministry’s EXCELLENT Berean Examination of Nicky Gumbel’s Teachings, by Michael J. Penfold. Additional Research Regarding John Piper’s Endorsement for a Preacher, and Desring God Conference 2013 Guest Speaker Candidate, who Utilizes The Alpha Course here
The Harbinger ~ The Ancient Mystery that Holds the Secret of America’s Future by Jonathan Cahn (Bad Fruit)
Biblical Resources:
Brannon Howse’s Review on Worldview Weekend here, here and here
Dr. Jimmy DeYoung Moderates a Conversation between David James and Jonathan Cahn. Points of Concern in The Harbinger from David James’ Review are Discussed such as Replacement Theology (America as “New Israel”), Correct Hermeneutics, Spiritualizing Scripture, Correct Biblical Patterns Application, Signs, New Prophecy/New Revelation, etc., etc.
Apprising Ministries’ Review here and here
David James’ Book, The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction?
From The Berean Call website (below) David James’ Book, The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction?
“This exclusive new book from The Berean Call encourages—and enables—readers to separate fact from fiction!
In The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction? author David James exhaustively documents and responds to the serious flaws found throughout the New York Times best-seller from Charisma Media, The Harbinger . Messianic rabbi Jonathan Cahn believes he has discovered an “ancient mystery” in Isaiah:9:10 that “explains everything from 9/11 to the collapse of the global economy.” As Cahn states at the beginning of his book “What you are about to read is presented in the form of a story, but what is contained within the story is real.” Many have accepted Cahn’s message as being genuinely from God. However, David James has clearly demonstrated that The Harbinger falls far short of meeting the biblical requirements for such a message from God, being based on the mishandling of Scripture, faulty theology, misleading statements, the selective use of historical facts, and unsupported speculation.
What others are saying about The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction? :
- “James has written this book not merely to expose error but to keep God’s people from being led astray. I believe he has accomplished these goals.” — Gary E. Gilley, Senior Pastor, Southern View Chapel, Springfield, Illinois
- “This book gives the reader a detailed, point-by-point analysis challenging [ The Harbinger ]. James does this with clear bilical methodology while avoiding personal attacks.” — Paul Barreca, Teaching Pastor, Faith Bible Church, Vineland, New Jersey
- “David James has done an excellent job in this review of . . . The Harbinger , [taking] a crucial look at the biblical aspects.” — Jimmy DeYoung, President and Founder, Prophecy Today
- “David James has used true discernment, extensive research, and biblical hermeneutics to reveal the dangerous message of The Harbinger [and its] extra-biblical revelation.” — Brannon Howse, President and Founder, Worldview Weekend
- “Anyone interested in The Harbinger needs to note [its] numerous errors…as presented in James’s excellent analysis.” — Roy B. Zuck, Senior Professor Emeritus of Bible Exposition, Dallas Theological Seminary
- “Dave James provides a fair biblical analysis for anyone wanting scrutiny of The Harbinger. I commend James’s book . . . for those seeking the truth rather than popularity.” — Tommy Ice, Executive Director, Pre-Trib Research Center
From the Foreword:
Jesus characterized the days prior to His return by telling His disciples: “Take heed that no man deceive you” (Matthew:24:4), and followed that by warning that the deceptions of the last days would be so overwhelming that “if possible, they shall deceive the very elect” (Matthew:24:24). What is the antidote for believers? It’s quite simple. They must be disciplined in their reading and living out the instructions of God’s Word. They must have a love for the Truth. They must become like the Bereans of Acts:17:10-11, who were commended for searching the Scriptures daily as they evaluated the preaching and teaching of the Apostle Paul.
To that end, David James has written an excellent book that will encourage every believer who reads it to grow in discernment at a time when that is greatly lacking among those who profess to be biblical Christians. If anyone thinks this is simply a critique of a popular book that has reached the top of the New York Times best-seller list, he will miss the true value of what James has written. It’s a short but very full course on biblical discernment that is a lesson to all of us on how we should evaluate everything we read that claims to teach about the things of God. —T. A. McMahon
About the author — David James is co-founder and Executive Director of The Alliance for Biblical Integrity (ABI). Dave earned his undergraduate degree in engineering from Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology and his masters in Biblical Studies from Dallas Theological Seminary. He also holds a diploma in Biblical Studies from the Word of Life Bible Institute. Dave’s ministry with ABI includes an extensive international teaching and preaching schedule in Bible institutes, seminaries, and conferences, as well as research and writing on current theological issues. He served with Word of Life Fellowship for 21 years, with 16 of those years as the Founding Director of the Word of Life Bible Institute in Hungary. In addition to directing ABI, Dave also directs and teaches in the School of Prophets (a ministry of Prophecy Today and Louisiana Baptist University, directed by Jimmy DeYoung) which offers masters and doctoral degrees in advanced eschatological studies. He has also taught as an adjunct professor of Bible for Grace College in the Indiana state prison system. Dave is actively involved in their local church where he serves on the board and frequently teaches. He and Karen were married in 1980 and have two grown children, a daughter-in-law, and one granddaughter.”
The Final Quest by Rick Joyner (Bad Fruit)
Biblical Resources:
SO4J-TV & Video Productions False Visits to Heaven or Hell
See Also: Heaven is for Real by Todd Burpo (Bad Fruit)
Excerpt: ”As always, the problems with these stories is that they undermine the sufficiency and supremacy of Scripture while also being contrary to Scripture. One way this is so is the mere attempt to cite and write about such an ‘episode.’ In 2 Cor 12:1-10, Paul’s humble account was written in third person in obedience to God; to not brag or “be credited with more” while remaining controlled in the Spirit to not boast. Paul stated that even if he did boast he would not be a fool, for it really happened, as recorded in and for the Holy Spirit-inspired, authoritative writings of the Bible. Paul wrote of his experience that he “did not know if it was in the body or out of the body,” but that nonetheless, it assuredly happened, again as written in the Word of God. Later on, in the 2 Cor 12 passage, he was given a “thorn in the flesh” for further humbling purposes by the Lord, to keep him from “exalting” himself. The lesson from Paul’s thorn is that God’s grace is sufficient! We are to be content in our weaknesses and sufferings for Christ, which indicate that “Christ dwells in us.” For when we are weak then He is strong. Praise the Lord!
Not only was Paul’s overall humble description of his account to heaven true as found in the Bible, and therefore “not foolish,” but also that his visit was “inexpressible.” Meaning that it was not for this apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, who wrote 13, or possibly 14 books, of the 27 New Testament books, to be permitted to share it beyond a godly restraint. It was not to be revealed with detail or pridefulness.
[Updated (10-27-11) with further admonishment to reject the tale in this book, and all others like it, as truth] Beware of trusting anyone who is claiming to have new revelation of truth from God. God has authored a closed Canon of Scripture. The Bible is His complete, authoritative, binding, infallible, inerrant, divine, sufficient, supreme and plenary revelation. And since the time it was closed (Jude 3), the 66 books of the Bible is how God speaks to us and allows us to experience the study and knowledge of Him (Eph 5:15-17; Col 1:9, 2 Tim 2:15). We are to turn to His Word, look to Him and trust Him for all truth (Jn 17:17), not anyone or anything or any experience that is contrary to His Book. The last revelation of Christ was given by God to another apostle, John, in the book of Revelation.
Consider, also, the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, from Luke 16:19-31, as another admonishment for Sola Scriptura, as well as what is not allowed by God. The rich man, who died and went to Hades, asked Abraham to send Lazarus, who died and went heaven, to warn the rich man’s family about how real the torment, God’s wrath, is and to repent. Abraham replied, “They have Moses and the Prophets (the Old Testament); let them hear them… If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets (another emphasis for Scripture, back-to-back), they will not be persuaded even if someone comes back from the dead.” (emphasis and parenthesis mine)
Further, after His resurrection from the dead, while on the road to Emmaus, Christ employed Sola Scriptura, not His experience, again with those who were being “foolish” and “slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken…. Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.” (emphasis mine) Later their eyes were opened and they recognized Him while He was breaking and blessing the bread. Reflecting back while walking on the road with Jesus, they said to one another, “Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?” (Luke 24:13-32) What a profound illustration is “hearts burning within us” when one is hearing God’s truth and yet not understanding it or accepting it.
Paul said to be “imitators of me,” in 1 Cor 4:16 and again in 1 Cor 11:1 because he, himself, is an imitator of Christ. May we carry out this command as well for Christ’s sake, in every area of our lives, by the grace and truth of God, for His glory.”
The Emerging Church by Dan Kimball (Bad Fruit)
Biblical Resources:
Lighthouse Trails’ Book Review
Pyromaniacs here, here, here and here
Apprising Ministries Reports on Emergent Proponent, Dan Kimball
Dr. John MacArthur on McLaren and the Emergent Church here (part 1) and here (part 2)
Dr. Gary Gilley on the Heresies of the Emergent Church here (part 1), here (part 2) and here (Part 3)
Randy Shelton’s mp3 on Contemplative Spirituality
SO4J’s Interview with Bob DeWaay on the Emergent Church
Bob DeWaay’s mp3 on the Emergent Church
Andy Olson’s Podcast with Bob DeWaay on the Emergent Church
Ray Yungen’s Book is HIGHLY Recommended
Ray Yungen’s pdf on Contemplative Prayer
Roger Oakland Resources, etc.
NOTE: Fighting for the Faith to air on November 12, 2010 with Chris Rosebrough’s Latest Report on Dan Kimball.
UPDATE: (11-12-10): Chris has requested that if you want to hear the broadcast, it will be available via his personal facebook page. He is suggesting to friend request him to listen in. In a nut shell, it was not a report for any public announcements personally by Dan Kimball, as we had hoped, denouncing his public, false teachings and association with the mystic, false gospel and practices of the Emergent Church. Rather, it was a recap of Chris’ understanding of a personal conversation between the two of them. Chris believes Kimball to be a “brother in Christ” from this dialogue and refers to him as such as well as a “friend.” Chris placed him “in the same camp as Mark Driscoll,” which appears to be a good thing for Chris, but rather problematic in and of itself, given the fact that Driscoll is a type of hip, relevant, post-modern, missional, church growth, seeker-sensitive, smutty showman, emergent in an “emerging lane” and has a moderate track record in displaying his lack of the fear of God, for example, here (Dr. MacArthur’s article, The Rape of Solomon’s Song), WARNING Driscoll’s MH-17 website (promoting sodomy) and here (Phil Johnson’s sermon, Pornification of the Pulpit). And not to mention, some bad fruit books of his own that display his rank blasphemous terminology (books to be transferred from the fb group to the library).
Going further into the broadcast, we believers, who have not witnessed a confession, an account, a statement from Kimball, have been cautioned, just short of being accused, closely insinuating, or where we actually accused by Chris Rosebrough, as “bearing false witness” against “our brother, Dan Kimball?” Hugh? How can we, those who do not accept Kimball as a brother in the Lord, but rather as a wolf in sheep’s clothing, of the “emerging lane,” Emergent Church variety, take such a caution seriously when no public announcements or pro-active measures, like getting his bad fruit off the bookshelves, by Mr. Kimball, have been heard or seen? Until Dan Kimball makes a public statement, admitting to having been deceived, while deceiving many as a leader in the Church, and starts bearing fruit in keeping with repentance, abiding in Christ, there is NO “bearing false witness” against Chris’ friend present. To indicate such, is where the “bearing false witness” is.
Since Chris also mentioned speaking privately per telephone with Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries on the matter, quoting Mr. Silva from that conversation on the broadcast, Mr. Silva has received feedback from listeners and wishes to clarifiy his position here.
May it be so, that Dan Kimball is a brother in the Lord by God’s grace, and will set the record straight for the Body of Christ, publicly, without anyone having to do it for him. Also, may it be so, by God’s grace, that Chris Rosebrough is not being deceived by the Emergent Church Movement (Mt 24:24). Let’s keep them in our prayers. All glory to God!
UPDATE II: (11-16-10): A second broadcast of Fighting for the Faith (F4F) aired yesterday with Chris Rosebrough providing a public platform for Dan Kimball to plead his case in his own defense as well as Chris’ endorsement of such. Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries also has this broadcast recorded in transcript form here. Chris covered all the areas of interest pertaining to Kimball, and in some cases, ‘leading the witness,’ in the interview. This time with Dan Kimball speaking publicly for himself, as opposed to the last episode, which was very much appreciated, but quite sadly WITHOUT RECANT and Chris still in Kimball’s contrary-to-Scripture corner.
But before hearing the actual episode, I saw a status by Chris on facebook with an alarming link to Lausanne’s statement of faith. I responded much like this, “A statement of faith from Lausanne??? Chris, this may be a silly question for you, but were you aware that Lausanne is ecumenical, affiliated with the heretical New Apostolic Reformation(NAR)/Vineyard/Third Wave Movement and that the heretical spiritual warfare movement that Neil T. Anderson promotes was a spin off from the Lausanne II conference? source Also, I respectfully disagree with you (Chris) that their Statement of faith is a “generic orthodox Christian doctrine.” For one, it is extremely wordy and ‘cuts and pastes’ the seemingly essentials all over the place, as if to be confusing and hard to track. I believe this is intentional. The essentials they covered were lacking. When addressing Scripture, it should be noted “66 books” and “Scripture in its original autographs” which they do not. So, this is a major problem. They lean heavy on a type of ecumenical evangelism that will retake dominion for Jesus, as one can see with all their points for “evangelism.” They also made sure they stated “God loves everyone,” which He doesn’t. A Statement of faith should not be complicated and scattered. It was like playing a crossword puzzle to find and circle the essentials in all the wordiness. It should be very basic and easy for an older child to read and understand.”
That connection of Kimball with Lausanne, a new layer as far as we knew, is a serious blow for their defense. Basically, it shatters it. Here’s another sampling of the heretical movement. Here is an article from Lighthouse Trails on this very topic. article excerpt: ”The break-away emergents (Kimball, McManus, etc.) see themselves as more conservative orthodox members of the emergent movement, but in reality they embrace the same mysticism and the same eschatology beliefs that have led McLaren and others like him into radical apostasy.”
Overall, there was no repentance, from Dan Kimball, of Vintage Faith Church, as we had hoped and prayed, just plenty of rationalizations on hand.In response to the Lectio Divina issue, he said it means something for him that is not the historical meaning. He understands it to mean, from Latin, “holy reading” while adding, “from the Scriptures.” In regards to Kimball’s statement, “repeating a Bible verse 3 or 4 times, to calm down,” Dan Kimball asked, “What the heck was wrong with that? ..it was not mindless… and that was my experience and how I defined it.” Chris and Kimball are saying that pagan mysticism is not ok, but out of the same mouths assert that “pausing for a second and letting God’s Word speak in a way to stop for a moment to think and ponder the things of God and His Word” is ok. My response. These quotes by Chris and Kimball are riddled with the teachings of pagan mysticism, not orthodox Christianity. In addition, Kimball still thinks his article on labyrinths is ok and moving a salt crystal around on a map, over different countries, to represent that believers are the “salt,” while praying for the people of the countries (this was a new one to me) is also ok. This has been criticized for being a practice of witchcraft. I agree.
I heard Chris give his blessing to all of Dan’s responses/rationalizations, without repentance from Dan, for these types of pagan practices, while turning the tables on other discernment ministries. Not that there aren’t bad ones out there. There most certainly are! However, that is not the topic at hand that needs to be dealt with. Let’s stay on topic!
A perfect opportunity was given for the gospel to be presented when Chris thoughtfully and consistently asked Kimball as he does with all guests of his show, “What does it mean when Christ proclaimed, ‘It is finished,’ on this cross?”A soft ball question for a ‘pastor’ and his answer was highly lacking of any scriptural text and fumbly bumbly with Dan asking, “Well, if that’s what you meant?” As if he was unsure of his answer! How could the question be made any simpler and clearer? ”What did Christ mean when He said, ‘It is finished,’ on the cross?” I encourage us to take every opportunity, obvious or not so obvious, to share the gospel in boldness and confidence. By His Spirit, we can! Shouldn’t a pastor, in particular, be really good at this?
This interview, much like Chris’ report on the Ed Young Jr.’s response to the local news about his private plane, was more condemning than the original report.Now, we know there is no repentance in the heart of Dan Kimball and that he agrees with a statement of faith with another false movement, Lausanne… with Chris’ endorsement.
“Out of the mouth flows what is in the heart,” indeed, Chris and Dan. I do agree with you on that biblical truth.
“The first to plead his case SEEMS right, UNTIL another comes and examines him.” ~Pro 18:17
I encourage this hard working pirate, Chris Rosebrough, who we love and care for, in Christ, to take a step down from the helm of his discernment ship, for how ever long it needs to be, and humbly go to our Lord and Savior, Jesus. His discernment is lacking of late and causing confusion in the Body of Christ. Dan Kimball is a false-movements-in-the-Church hopper who I would also like to encourage with Col 1:10-11, which is possible if he is one of God’s own. But firstly, I would encourage him in 2 Cor 13:5, as well as myself, and all who profess to be a believer, to be sure to do the same. Otherwise, 1 Jn 2:4 applies. I pray that Chris’ statement, “Where I make errors, I have to repent and change what I do,” will be the case for Chris as well as for each of us, as the Lord leads us, in all areas of our lives, so that we will be counted as faithful, by God’s grace, being an example to all believers and walking in a manner worthy of the Lord and His gospel, for His Name.
-Karla Tadler
CHECK THIS OUT! An Excellent Episode of Crosstalk, POST F4F INTERVIEW, with host Ingrid Schlueter and guest Deborah Dombrowski of Lighthouse Trails. Together they examine and expose Dan Kimball’s work, a “Bridger” to the heretical Emergent Church and their mysticism practices. Others discussed include Brian McLaren, Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Leonard Sweet, Frank Viola, etc.
They Like Jesus but Not the Church by Dan Kimball (Bad Fruit)
Biblical Resources:
Lighthouse Trails’ Book Review
Pyromaniacs here, here, here and here
Apprising Ministries Reports on Emergent Proponent, Dan Kimball
Dr. John MacArthur on McLaren and the Emergent Church here (part 1) and here (part 2)
Dr. Gary Gilley on the Heresies of the Emergent Church here (part 1), here (part 2) and here (Part 3)
Randy Shelton’s mp3 on Contemplative Spirituality
SO4J’s Interview with Bob DeWaay on the Emergent Church
Bob DeWaay’s mp3 on the Emergent Church
Andy Olson’s Podcast with Bob DeWaay on the Emergent Church
Ray Yungen’s Book is HIGHLY Recommended
Ray Yungen’s pdf on Contemplative Prayer
Roger Oakland Resources, etc.
NOTE: Fighting for the Faith to air on November 12, 2010 with Chris Rosebrough’s Latest Report on Dan Kimball.
UPDATE: (11-12-10): Chris has requested that if you want to hear the broadcast, it will be available via his personal facebook page. He is suggesting to friend request him to listen in. In a nut shell, it was not a report for any public announcements personally by Dan Kimball, as we had hoped, denouncing his public, false teachings and association with the mystic, false gospel and practices of the Emergent Church. Rather, it was a recap of Chris’ understanding of a personal conversation between the two of them. Chris believes Kimball to be a “brother in Christ” from this dialogue and refers to him as such as well as a “friend.” Chris placed him “in the same camp as Mark Driscoll,” which appears to be a good thing for Chris, but rather problematic in and of itself, given the fact that Driscoll is a type of hip, relevant, post-modern, missional, church growth, seeker-sensitive, smutty showman, emergent in an “emerging lane” and has a moderate track record in displaying his lack of the fear of God, for example, here (Dr. MacArthur’s article, The Rape of Solomon’s Song), WARNING Driscoll’s MH-17 website (promoting sodomy) and here (Phil Johnson’s sermon, Pornification of the Pulpit). And not to mention, some bad fruit books of his own that display his rank blasphemous terminology (books to be transferred from the fb group to the library).
Going further into the broadcast, we believers, who have not witnessed a confession, an account, a statement from Kimball, have been cautioned, just short of being accused, closely insinuating, or where we actually accused by Chris Rosebrough, as “bearing false witness” against “our brother, Dan Kimball?” Hugh? How can we, those who do not accept Kimball as a brother in the Lord, but rather as a wolf in sheep’s clothing, of the “emerging lane,” Emergent Church variety, take such a caution seriously when no public announcements or pro-active measures, like getting his bad fruit off the bookshelves, by Mr. Kimball, have been heard or seen? Until Dan Kimball makes a public statement, admitting to having been deceived, while deceiving many as a leader in the Church, and starts bearing fruit in keeping with repentance, abiding in Christ, there is NO “bearing false witness” against Chris’ friend present. To indicate such, is where the “bearing false witness” is.
Since Chris also mentioned speaking privately per telephone with Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries on the matter, quoting Mr. Silva from that conversation on the broadcast, Mr. Silva has received feedback from listeners and wishes to clarifiy his position here.
May it be so, that Dan Kimball is a brother in the Lord by God’s grace, and will set the record straight for the Body of Christ, publicly, without anyone having to do it for him. Also, may it be so, by God’s grace, that Chris Rosebrough is not being deceived by the Emergent Church Movement (Mt 24:24). Let’s keep them in our prayers. All glory to God!
UPDATE II: (11-16-10): A second broadcast of Fighting for the Faith (F4F) aired yesterday with Chris Rosebrough providing a public platform for Dan Kimball to plead his case in his own defense as well as Chris’ endorsement of such. Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries also has this broadcast recorded in transcript form here. Chris covered all the areas of interest pertaining to Kimball, and in some cases, ‘leading the witness,’ in the interview. This time with Dan Kimball speaking publicly for himself, as opposed to the last episode, which was very much appreciated, but quite sadly WITHOUT RECANT and Chris still in Kimball’s contrary-to-Scripture corner.
But before hearing the actual episode, I saw a status by Chris on facebook with an alarming link to Lausanne’s statement of faith. I responded much like this, “A statement of faith from Lausanne??? Chris, this may be a silly question for you, but were you aware that Lausanne is ecumenical, affiliated with the heretical New Apostolic Reformation(NAR)/Vineyard/Third Wave Movement and that the heretical spiritual warfare movement that Neil T. Anderson promotes was a spin off from the Lausanne II conference? source Also, I respectfully disagree with you (Chris) that their Statement of faith is a “generic orthodox Christian doctrine.” For one, it is extremely wordy and ‘cuts and pastes’ the seemingly essentials all over the place, as if to be confusing and hard to track. I believe this is intentional. The essentials they covered were lacking. When addressing Scripture, it should be noted “66 books” and “Scripture in its original autographs” which they do not. So, this is a major problem. They lean heavy on a type of ecumenical evangelism that will retake dominion for Jesus, as one can see with all their points for “evangelism.” They also made sure they stated “God loves everyone,” which He doesn’t. A Statement of faith should not be complicated and scattered. It was like playing a crossword puzzle to find and circle the essentials in all the wordiness. It should be very basic and easy for an older child to read and understand.”
That connection of Kimball with Lausanne, a new layer as far as we knew, is a serious blow for their defense. Basically, it shatters it. Here’s another sampling of the heretical movement. Here is an article from Lighthouse Trails on this very topic. article excerpt: ”The break-away emergents (Kimball, McManus, etc.) see themselves as more conservative orthodox members of the emergent movement, but in reality they embrace the same mysticism and the same eschatology beliefs that have led McLaren and others like him into radical apostasy.”
Overall, there was no repentance, from Dan Kimball, of Vintage Faith Church, as we had hoped and prayed, just plenty of rationalizations on hand. In response to the Lectio Divina issue, he said it means something for him that is not the historical meaning. He understands it to mean, from Latin, “holy reading” while adding, “from the Scriptures.” In regards to Kimball’s statement, “repeating a Bible verse 3 or 4 times, to calm down,” Dan Kimball asked, “What the heck was wrong with that? ..it was not mindless… and that was my experience and how I defined it.” Chris and Kimball are saying that pagan mysticism is not ok, but out of the same mouths assert that “pausing for a second and letting God’s Word speak in a way to stop for a moment to think and ponder the things of God and His Word” is ok. My response. These quotes by Chris and Kimball are riddled with the teachings of pagan mysticism, not orthodox Christianity. In addition, Kimball still thinks his article on labyrinths is ok and moving a salt crystal around on a map, over different countries, to represent that believers are the “salt,” while praying for the people of the countries (this was a new one to me) is also ok. This has been criticized for being a practice of witchcraft. I agree.
I heard Chris give his blessing to all of Dan’s responses/rationalizations, without repentance from Dan, for these types of pagan practices, while turning the tables on other discernment ministries. Not that there aren’t bad ones out there. There most certainly are! But that is not the topic at hand that needs to be dealt with. Let’s stay on topic!
A perfect opportunity was given for the gospel to be presented when Chris thoughtfully and consistently asked Kimball as he does with all guests of his show, “What does it mean when Christ proclaimed, ‘It is finished,’ on this cross?” A soft ball question for a ‘pastor’ and his answer was highly lacking of any scriptural text and fumbly bumbly with Dan asking, “Well, if that’s what you meant?” As if he was unsure of his answer! How could the question be made any simpler and clearer? ”What did Christ mean when He said, ‘It is finished,’ on the cross?” I encourage us to take every opportunity, obvious or not so obvious, to share the gospel in boldness and confidence. By His Spirit, we can! Shouldn’t a pastor, in particular, be really good at this?
This interview, much like Chris’ report on the Ed Young Jr.’s response to the local news about his private plane, was more condemning than the original report. Now, we know there is no repentance in the heart of Dan Kimball and that he agrees with a statement of faith with another false movement, Lausanne… with Chris’ endorsement.
“Out of the mouth flows what is in the heart,” indeed, Chris and Dan. I do agree with you on that biblical truth.
“The first to plead his case SEEMS right, UNTIL another comes and examines him.” ~Pro 18:17
I encourage this hard working pirate, Chris Rosebrough, who we love and care for, in Christ, to take a step down from the helm of his discernment ship, for how ever long it needs to be, and humbly go to our Lord and Savior, Jesus. His discernment is lacking of late and causing confusion in the Body of Christ. Dan Kimball is a false-movements-in-the-Church hopper who I would also like to encourage with Col 1:10-11, which is possible if he is one of God’s own. But firstly, I would encourage him in 2 Cor 13:5, as well as myself, and all who profess to be a believer, to be sure to do the same. Otherwise, 1 Jn 2:4 applies. I pray that Chris’ statement, “Where I make errors, I have to repent and change what I do,” will be the case for Chris as well as for each of us, as the Lord leads us, in all areas of our lives, so that we will be counted as faithful, by God’s grace, being an example to all believers and walking in a manner worthy of the Lord and His gospel, for His Name.
-Karla Tadler
CHECK THIS OUT! An Excellent Episode of Crosstalk, POST F4F INTERVIEW, with host Ingrid Schlueter and guest Deborah Dombrowski of Lighthouse Trails. Together they examine and expose Dan Kimball’s work, a “Bridger” to the heretical Emergent Church and their mysticism practices. Others discussed include Brian McLaren, Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Leonard Sweet, Frank Viola, etc.
Do You Like Jesus but Not the Church? by Dan Kimball (Bad Fruit)
Biblical Resources:
Lighthouse Trails’ Book Review
Pyromaniacs here, here, here and here
Apprising Ministries Reports on Emergent Proponent, Dan Kimball
Dr. John MacArthur on McLaren and the Emergent Church here (part 1) and here (part 2)
Dr. Gary Gilley on the Heresies of the Emergent Church here (part 1), here (part 2) and here (Part 3)
Randy Shelton’s mp3 on Contemplative Spirituality
SO4J’s Interview with Bob DeWaay on the Emergent Church
Bob DeWaay’s mp3 on the Emergent Church
Andy Olson’s Podcast with Bob DeWaay on the Emergent Church
Ray Yungen’s Book is HIGHLY Recommended
Ray Yungen’s pdf on Contemplative Prayer
Roger Oakland Resources, etc.
NOTE: Fighting for the Faith to air on November 12, 2010 with Chris Rosebrough’s Latest Report on Dan Kimball.
UPDATE: (11-12-10): Chris has requested that if you want to hear the broadcast, it will be available via his personal facebook page. He is suggesting to friend request him to listen in. In a nut shell, it was not a report for any public announcements personally by Dan Kimball, as we had hoped, denouncing his public, false teachings and association with the mystic, false gospel and practices of the Emergent Church. Rather, it was a recap of Chris’ understanding of a personal conversation between the two of them. Chris believes Kimball to be a “brother in Christ” from this dialogue and refers to him as such as well as a “friend.” Chris placed him “in the same camp as Mark Driscoll,” which appears to be a good thing for Chris, but rather problematic in and of itself, given the fact that Driscoll is a type of hip, relevant, post-modern, missional, church growth, seeker-sensitive, smutty showman, emergent in an “emerging lane” and has a moderate track record in displaying his lack of the fear of God, for example, here (Dr. MacArthur’s article, The Rape of Solomon’s Song), WARNING Driscoll’s MH-17 website (promoting sodomy) and here (Phil Johnson’s sermon, Pornification of the Pulpit). And not to mention, some bad fruit books of his own that display his rank blasphemous terminology (books to be transferred from the fb group to the library).
Going further into the broadcast, we believers, who have not witnessed a confession, an account, a statement from Kimball, have been cautioned, just short of being accused, closely insinuating, or where we actually accused by Chris Rosebrough, as “bearing false witness” against “our brother, Dan Kimball?” Hugh? How can we, those who do not accept Kimball as a brother in the Lord, but rather as a wolf in sheep’s clothing, of the “emerging lane,” Emergent Church variety, take such a caution seriously when no public announcements or pro-active measures, like getting his bad fruit off the bookshelves, by Mr. Kimball, have been heard or seen? Until Dan Kimball makes a public statement, admitting to having been deceived, while deceiving many as a leader in the Church, and starts bearing fruit in keeping with repentance, abiding in Christ, there is NO “bearing false witness” against Chris’ friend present. To indicate such, is where the “bearing false witness” is.
Since Chris also mentioned speaking privately per telephone with Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries on the matter, quoting Mr. Silva from that conversation on the broadcast, Mr. Silva has received feedback from listeners and wishes to clarifiy his position here.
May it be so, that Dan Kimball is a brother in the Lord by God’s grace, and will set the record straight for the Body of Christ, publicly, without anyone having to do it for him. Also, may it be so, by God’s grace, that Chris Rosebrough is not being deceived by the Emergent Church Movement (Mt 24:24). Let’s keep them in our prayers. All glory to God!
UPDATE II: (11-16-10):A second broadcast of Fighting for the Faith (F4F) aired yesterday with Chris Rosebrough providing a public platform for Dan Kimball to plead his case in his own defense as well as Chris’ endorsement of such. Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries also has this broadcast recorded in transcript form here. Chris covered all the areas of interest pertaining to Kimball, and in some cases, ‘leading the witness,’ in the interview. This time with Dan Kimball speaking publicly for himself, as opposed to the last episode, which was very much appreciated, but quite sadly WITHOUT RECANT and Chris still in Kimball’s contrary-to-Scripture corner.
But before hearing the actual episode, I saw a status by Chris on facebook with an alarming link to Lausanne’s statement of faith. I responded much like this, “A statement of faith from Lausanne??? Chris, this may be a silly question for you, but were you aware that Lausanne is ecumenical, affiliated with the heretical New Apostolic Reformation(NAR)/Vineyard/Third Wave Movement and that the heretical spiritual warfare movement that Neil T. Anderson promotes was a spin off from the Lausanne II conference? source Also, I respectfully disagree with you (Chris) that their Statement of faith is a “generic orthodox Christian doctrine.” For one, it is extremely wordy and ‘cuts and pastes’ the seemingly essentials all over the place, as if to be confusing and hard to track. I believe this is intentional. The essentials they covered were lacking. When addressing Scripture, it should be noted “66 books” and “Scripture in its original autographs” which they do not. So, this is a major problem. They lean heavy on a type of ecumenical evangelism that will retake dominion for Jesus, as one can see with all their points for “evangelism.” They also made sure they stated “God loves everyone,” which He doesn’t. A Statement of faith should not be complicated and scattered. It was like playing a crossword puzzle to find and circle the essentials in all the wordiness. It should be very basic and easy for an older child to read and understand.”
That connection of Kimball with Lausanne, a new layer as far as we knew, is a serious blow for their defense. Basically, it shatters it. Here’s another sampling of the heretical movement. Here is an article from Lighthouse Trails on this very topic. article excerpt: ”The break-away emergents (Kimball, McManus, etc.) see themselves as more conservative orthodox members of the emergent movement, but in reality they embrace the same mysticism and the same eschatology beliefs that have led McLaren and others like him into radical apostasy.”
Overall, there was no repentance, from Dan Kimball, of Vintage Faith Church, as we had hoped and prayed, just plenty of rationalizations on hand. In response to the Lectio Divina issue, he said it means something for him that is not the historical meaning. He understands it to mean, from Latin, “holy reading” while adding, “from the Scriptures.” In regards to Kimball’s statement, “repeating a Bible verse 3 or 4 times, to calm down,” Dan Kimball asked, “What the heck was wrong with that? ..it was not mindless… and that was my experience and how I defined it.” Chris and Kimball are saying that pagan mysticism is not ok, but out of the same mouths assert that “pausing for a second and letting God’s Word speak in a way to stop for a moment to think and ponder the things of God and His Word” is ok. My response. These quotes by Chris and Kimball are riddled with the teachings of pagan mysticism, not orthodox Christianity. In addition, Kimball still thinks his article on labyrinths is ok and moving a salt crystal around on a map, over different countries, to represent that believers are the “salt,” while praying for the people of the countries (this was a new one to me) is also ok. This has been criticized for being a practice of witchcraft. I agree.
I heard Chris give his blessing to all of Dan’s responses/rationalizations, without repentance from Dan, for these types of pagan practices, while turning the tables on other discernment ministries. Not that there aren’t bad ones out there. There most certainly are! But that is not the topic at hand that needs to be dealt with. Let’s stay on topic!
A perfect opportunity was given for the gospel to be presented when Chris thoughtfully and consistently asked Kimball as he does with all guests of his show, “What does it mean when Christ proclaimed, ‘It is finished,’ on this cross?” A soft ball question for a ‘pastor’ and his answer was highly lacking of any scriptural text and fumbly bumbly with Dan asking, “Well, if that’s what you meant?” As if he was unsure of his answer! How could the question be made any simpler and clearer? ”What did Christ mean when He said, ‘It is finished,’ on the cross?” I encourage us to take every opportunity, obvious or not so obvious, to share the gospel in boldness and confidence. By His Spirit, we can! Shouldn’t a pastor, in particular, be really good at this?
This interview, much like Chris’ report on the Ed Young Jr.’s response to the local news about his private plane, was more condemning than the original report. Now, we know there is no repentance in the heart of Dan Kimball and that he agrees with a statement of faith with another false movement, Lausanne… with Chris’ endorsement.
“Out of the mouth flows what is in the heart,” indeed, Chris and Dan. I do agree with you on that biblical truth.
“The first to plead his case SEEMS right, UNTIL another comes and examines him.” ~Pro 18:17
I encourage this hard working pirate, Chris Rosebrough, who we love and care for, in Christ, to take a step down from the helm of his discernment ship, for how ever long it needs to be, and humbly go to our Lord and Savior, Jesus. His discernment is lacking of late and causing confusion in the Body of Christ. Dan Kimball is a false-movements-in-the-Church hopper who I would also like to encourage with Col 1:10-11, which is possible if he is one of God’s own. But firstly, I would encourage him in 2 Cor 13:5, as well as myself, and all who profess to be a believer, to be sure to do the same. Otherwise, 1 Jn 2:4 applies. I pray that Chris’ statement, “Where I make errors, I have to repent and change what I do,” will be the case for Chris as well as for each of us, as the Lord leads us, in all areas of our lives, so that we will be counted as faithful, by God’s grace, being an example to all believers and walking in a manner worthy of the Lord and His gospel, for His Name.
-Karla Tadler
CHECK THIS OUT! An Excellent Episode of Crosstalk, POST F4F INTERVIEW, with host Ingrid Schlueter and guest Deborah Dombrowski of Lighthouse Trails. Together they examine and expose Dan Kimball’s work, a “Bridger” to the heretical Emergent Church and their mysticism practices. Others discussed include Brian McLaren, Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Leonard Sweet, Frank Viola, etc.
Sacred Space by Dan Kimball and Lilly Lewin (Bad Fruit)
Biblical Resources:
Lighthouse Trails’ Book Review
Pyromaniacs here, here, here and here
Apprising Ministries Reports on Emergent Proponent, Dan Kimball
Dr. John MacArthur on McLaren and the Emergent Church here (part 1) and here (part 2)
Dr. Gary Gilley on the Heresies of the Emergent Church here (part 1), here (part 2) and here (Part 3)
Randy Shelton’s mp3 on Contemplative Spirituality
SO4J’s Interview with Bob DeWaay on the Emergent Church
Bob DeWaay’s mp3 on the Emergent Church
Andy Olson’s Podcast with Bob DeWaay on the Emergent Church
Ray Yungen’s Book is HIGHLY Recommended
Ray Yungen’s pdf on Contemplative Prayer
Roger Oakland Resources, etc.
NOTE: Fighting for the Faith to air on November 12, 2010 with Chris Rosebrough’s Latest Report on Dan Kimball.
UPDATE: (11-12-10): Chris has requested that if you want to hear the broadcast, it will be available via his personal facebook page. He is suggesting to friend request him to listen in. In a nut shell, it was not a report for any public announcements personally by Dan Kimball, as we had hoped, denouncing his public, false teachings and association with the mystic, false gospel and practices of the Emergent Church. Rather, it was a recap of Chris’ understanding of a personal conversation between the two of them. Chris believes Kimball to be a “brother in Christ” from this dialogue and refers to him as such as well as a “friend.” Chris placed him “in the same camp as Mark Driscoll,” which appears to be a good thing for Chris, but rather problematic in and of itself, given the fact that Driscoll is a type of hip, relevant, post-modern, missional, church growth, seeker-sensitive, smutty showman, emergent in an “emerging lane” and has a moderate track record in displaying his lack of the fear of God, for example, here (Dr. MacArthur’s article, The Rape of Solomon’s Song), WARNING Driscoll’s MH-17 website (promoting sodomy) and here (Phil Johnson’s sermon, Pornification of the Pulpit). And not to mention, some bad fruit books of his own that display his rank blasphemous terminology (books to be transferred from the fb group to the library).
Going further into the broadcast, we believers, who have not witnessed a confession, an account, a statement from Kimball, have been cautioned, just short of being accused, closely insinuating, or where we actually accused by Chris Rosebrough, as “bearing false witness” against “our brother, Dan Kimball?” Hugh? How can we, those who do not accept Kimball as a brother in the Lord, but rather as a wolf in sheep’s clothing, of the “emerging lane,” Emergent Church variety, take such a caution seriously when no public announcements or pro-active measures, like getting his bad fruit off the bookshelves, by Mr. Kimball, have been heard or seen? Until Dan Kimball makes a public statement, admitting to having been deceived, while deceiving many as a leader in the Church, and starts bearing fruit in keeping with repentance, abiding in Christ, there is NO “bearing false witness” against Chris’ friend present. To indicate such, is where the “bearing false witness” is.
Since Chris also mentioned speaking privately per telephone with Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries on the matter, quoting Mr. Silva from that conversation on the broadcast, Mr. Silva has received feedback from listeners and wishes to clarifiy his position here.
May it be so, that Dan Kimball is a brother in the Lord by God’s grace, and will set the record straight for the Body of Christ, publicly, without anyone having to do it for him. Also, may it be so, by God’s grace, that Chris Rosebrough is not being deceived by the Emergent Church Movement (Mt 24:24). Let’s keep them in our prayers. All glory to God!
UPDATE II: (11-16-10): A second broadcast of Fighting for the Faith (F4F) aired yesterday with Chris Rosebrough providing a public platform for Dan Kimball to plead his case in his own defense as well as Chris’ endorsement of such. Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries also has this broadcast recorded in transcript form here. Chris covered all the areas of interest pertaining to Kimball, and in some cases, ‘leading the witness,’ in the interview. This time with Dan Kimball speaking publicly for himself, as opposed to the last episode, which was very much appreciated, but quite sadly WITHOUT RECANT and Chris still in Kimball’s contrary-to-Scripture corner.
But before hearing the actual episode, I saw a status by Chris on facebook with an alarming link to Lausanne’s statement of faith. I responded much like this, “A statement of faith from Lausanne??? Chris, this may be a silly question for you, but were you aware that Lausanne is ecumenical, affiliated with the heretical New Apostolic Reformation(NAR)/Vineyard/Third Wave Movement and that the heretical spiritual warfare movement that Neil T. Anderson promotes was a spin off from the Lausanne II conference? source Also, I respectfully disagree with you (Chris) that their Statement of faith is a “generic orthodox Christian doctrine.” For one, it is extremely wordy and ‘cuts and pastes’ the seemingly essentials all over the place, as if to be confusing and hard to track. I believe this is intentional. The essentials they covered were lacking. When addressing Scripture, it should be noted “66 books” and “Scripture in its original autographs” which they do not. So, this is a major problem. They lean heavy on a type of ecumenical evangelism that will retake dominion for Jesus, as one can see with all their points for “evangelism.” They also made sure they stated “God loves everyone,” which He doesn’t. A Statement of faith should not be complicated and scattered. It was like playing a crossword puzzle to find and circle the essentials in all the wordiness. It should be very basic and easy for an older child to read and understand.”
That connection of Kimball with Lausanne, a new layer as far as we knew, is a serious blow for their defense. Basically, it shatters it. Here’s another sampling of the heretical movement. Here is an article from Lighthouse Trails on this very topic. article excerpt: ”The break-away emergents (Kimball, McManus, etc.) see themselves as more conservative orthodox members of the emergent movement, but in reality they embrace the same mysticism and the same eschatology beliefs that have led McLaren and others like him into radical apostasy.”
Overall, there was no repentance, from Dan Kimball, of Vintage Faith Church, as we had hoped and prayed, just plenty of rationalizations on hand. In response to the Lectio Divina issue, he said it means something for him that is not the historical meaning. He understands it to mean, from Latin, “holy reading” while adding, “from the Scriptures.” In regards to Kimball’s statement, “repeating a Bible verse 3 or 4 times, to calm down,” Dan Kimball asked, “What the heck was wrong with that? ..it was not mindless… and that was my experience and how I defined it.” Chris and Kimball are saying that pagan mysticism is not ok, but out of the same mouths assert that “pausing for a second and letting God’s Word speak in a way to stop for a moment to think and ponder the things of God and His Word” is ok. My response. These quotes by Chris and Kimball are riddled with the teachings of pagan mysticism, not orthodox Christianity. In addition, Kimball still thinks his article on labyrinths is ok and moving a salt crystal around on a map, over different countries, to represent that believers are the “salt,” while praying for the people of the countries (this was a new one to me) is also ok. This has been criticized for being a practice of witchcraft. I agree.
I heard Chris give his blessing to all of Dan’s responses/rationalizations, without repentance from Dan, for these types of pagan practices, while turning the tables on other discernment ministries. Not that there aren’t bad ones out there. There most certainly are! But that is not the topic at hand that needs to be dealt with. Let’s stay on topic!
A perfect opportunity was given for the gospel to be presented when Chris thoughtfully and consistently asked Kimball as he does with all guests of his show, “What does it mean when Christ proclaimed, ‘It is finished,’ on this cross?” A soft ball question for a ‘pastor’ and his answer was highly lacking of any scriptural text and fumbly bumbly with Dan asking, “Well, if that’s what you meant?” As if he was unsure of his answer! How could the question be made any simpler and clearer? ”What did Christ mean when He said, ‘It is finished,’ on the cross?” I encourage us to take every opportunity, obvious or not so obvious, to share the gospel in boldness and confidence. By His Spirit, we can! Shouldn’t a pastor, in particular, be really good at this?
This interview, much like Chris’ report on the Ed Young Jr.’s response to the local news about his private plane, was more condemning than the original report. Now, we know there is no repentance in the heart of Dan Kimball and that he agrees with a statement of faith with another false movement, Lausanne… with Chris’ endorsement.
“Out of the mouth flows what is in the heart,” indeed, Chris and Dan. I do agree with you on that biblical truth.
“The first to plead his case SEEMS right, UNTIL another comes and examines him.” ~Pro 18:17
I encourage this hard working pirate, Chris Rosebrough, who we love and care for, in Christ, to take a step down from the helm of his discernment ship, for how ever long it needs to be, and humbly go to our Lord and Savior, Jesus. His discernment is lacking of late and causing confusion in the Body of Christ. Dan Kimball is a false-movements-in-the-Church hopper who I would also like to encourage with Col 1:10-11, which is possible if he is one of God’s own. But firstly, I would encourage him in 2 Cor 13:5, as well as myself, and all who profess to be a believer, to be sure to do the same. Otherwise, 1 Jn 2:4 applies. I pray that Chris’ statement, “Where I make errors, I have to repent and change what I do,” will be the case for Chris as well as for each of us, as the Lord leads us, in all areas of our lives, so that we will be counted as faithful, by God’s grace, being an example to all believers and walking in a manner worthy of the Lord and His gospel, for His Name.
-Karla Tadler
CHECK THIS OUT! An Excellent Episode of Crosstalk, POST F4F INTERVIEW, with host Ingrid Schlueter and guest Deborah Dombrowski of Lighthouse Trails. Together they examine and expose Dan Kimball’s work, a “Bridger” to the heretical Emergent Church and their mysticism practices. Others discussed include Brian McLaren, Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Leonard Sweet, Frank Viola, etc.
Listening to the Beliefs of the Emerging Churches by Dan Kimball, Doug Pagitt, Mark Driscoll, John Burke and Karen Ward (Bad Fruit)
Biblical Resources:
Lighthouse Trails’ Book Review
Pyromaniacs here, here, here and here
Apprising Ministries Reports on Emergent Proponent, Dan Kimball
Dr. John MacArthur on McLaren and the Emergent Church here (part 1) and here (part 2)
Dr. Gary Gilley on the Heresies of the Emergent Church here (part 1), here (part 2) and here (Part 3)
Randy Shelton’s mp3 on Contemplative Spirituality
SO4J’s Interview with Bob DeWaay on the Emergent Church
Bob DeWaay’s mp3 on the Emergent Church
Andy Olson’s Podcast with Bob DeWaay on the Emergent Church
Ray Yungen’s Book is HIGHLY Recommended
Ray Yungen’s pdf on Contemplative Prayer
Roger Oakland Resources, etc.
NOTE: Fighting for the Faith to air on November 12, 2010 with Chris Rosebrough’s Latest Report on Dan Kimball.
UPDATE: (11-12-10): Chris has requested that if you want to hear the broadcast, it will be available via his personal facebook page. He is suggesting to friend request him to listen in. In a nut shell, it was not a report for any public announcements personally by Dan Kimball, as we had hoped, denouncing his public, false teachings and association with the mystic, false gospel and practices of the Emergent Church. Rather, it was a recap of Chris’ understanding of a personal conversation between the two of them. Chris believes Kimball to be a “brother in Christ” from this dialogue and refers to him as such as well as a “friend.” Chris placed him “in the same camp as Mark Driscoll,” which appears to be a good thing for Chris, but rather problematic in and of itself, given the fact that Driscoll is a type of hip, relevant, post-modern, missional, church growth, seeker-sensitive, smutty showman, emergent in an “emerging lane” and has a moderate track record in displaying his lack of the fear of God, for example, here (Dr. MacArthur’s article, The Rape of Solomon’s Song), WARNING Driscoll’s MH-17 website (promoting sodomy) and here (Phil Johnson’s sermon, Pornification of the Pulpit). And not to mention, some bad fruit books of his own that display his rank blasphemous terminology (books to be transferred from the fb group to the library).
Going further into the broadcast, we believers, who have not witnessed a confession, an account, a statement from Kimball, have been cautioned, just short of being accused, closely insinuating, or where we actually accused by Chris Rosebrough, as “bearing false witness” against “our brother, Dan Kimball?” Hugh? How can we, those who do not accept Kimball as a brother in the Lord, but rather as a wolf in sheep’s clothing, of the “emerging lane,” Emergent Church variety, take such a caution seriously when no public announcements or pro-active measures, like getting his bad fruit off the bookshelves, by Mr. Kimball, have been heard or seen? Until Dan Kimball makes a public statement, admitting to having been deceived, while deceiving many as a leader in the Church, and starts bearing fruit in keeping with repentance, abiding in Christ, there is NO “bearing false witness” against Chris’ friend present. To indicate such, is where the “bearing false witness” is.
Since Chris also mentioned speaking privately per telephone with Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries on the matter, quoting Mr. Silva from that conversation on the broadcast, Mr. Silva has received feedback from listeners and wishes to clarifiy his position here.
May it be so, that Dan Kimball is a brother in the Lord by God’s grace, and will set the record straight for the Body of Christ, publicly, without anyone having to do it for him. Also, may it be so, by God’s grace, that Chris Rosebrough is not being deceived by the Emergent Church Movement (Mt 24:24). Let’s keep them in our prayers. All glory to God!
UPDATE II: (11-16-10): A second broadcast of Fighting for the Faith (F4F) aired yesterday with Chris Rosebrough providing a public platform for Dan Kimball to plead his case in his own defense as well as Chris’ endorsement of such. Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries also has this broadcast recorded in transcript form here. Chris covered all the areas of interest pertaining to Kimball, and in some cases, ‘leading the witness,’ in the interview. This time with Dan Kimball speaking publicly for himself, as opposed to the last episode, which was very much appreciated, but quite sadly WITHOUT RECANT and Chris still in Kimball’s contrary-to-Scripture corner.
But before hearing the actual episode, I saw a status by Chris on facebook with an alarming link to Lausanne’s statement of faith. I responded much like this, “A statement of faith from Lausanne??? Chris, this may be a silly question for you, but were you aware that Lausanne is ecumenical, affiliated with the heretical New Apostolic Reformation(NAR)/Vineyard/Third Wave Movement and that the heretical spiritual warfare movement that Neil T. Anderson promotes was a spin off from the Lausanne II conference? source Also, I respectfully disagree with you (Chris) that their Statement of faith is a “generic orthodox Christian doctrine.” For one, it is extremely wordy and ‘cuts and pastes’ the seemingly essentials all over the place, as if to be confusing and hard to track. I believe this is intentional. The essentials they covered were lacking. When addressing Scripture, it should be noted “66 books” and “Scripture in its original autographs” which they do not. So, this is a major problem. They lean heavy on a type of ecumenical evangelism that will retake dominion for Jesus, as one can see with all their points for “evangelism.” They also made sure they stated “God loves everyone,” which He doesn’t. A Statement of faith should not be complicated and scattered. It was like playing a crossword puzzle to find and circle the essentials in all the wordiness. It should be very basic and easy for an older child to read and understand.”
That connection of Kimball with Lausanne, a new layer as far as we knew, is a serious blow for their defense. Basically, it shatters it. Here’s another sampling of the heretical movement. Here is an article from Lighthouse Trails on this very topic. article excerpt: ”The break-away emergents (Kimball, McManus, etc.) see themselves as more conservative orthodox members of the emergent movement, but in reality they embrace the same mysticism and the same eschatology beliefs that have led McLaren and others like him into radical apostasy.”
Overall, there was no repentance, from Dan Kimball, of Vintage Faith Church, as we had hoped and prayed, just plenty of rationalizations on hand. In response to the Lectio Divina issue, he said it means something for him that is not the historical meaning. He understands it to mean, from Latin, “holy reading” while adding, “from the Scriptures.” In regards to Kimball’s statement, “repeating a Bible verse 3 or 4 times, to calm down,” Dan Kimball asked, “What the heck was wrong with that? ..it was not mindless… and that was my experience and how I defined it.” Chris and Kimball are saying that pagan mysticism is not ok, but out of the same mouths assert that “pausing for a second and letting God’s Word speak in a way to stop for a moment to think and ponder the things of God and His Word” is ok. My response. These quotes by Chris and Kimball are riddled with the teachings of pagan mysticism, not orthodox Christianity. In addition, Kimball still thinks his article on labyrinths is ok and moving a salt crystal around on a map, over different countries, to represent that believers are the “salt,” while praying for the people of the countries (this was a new one to me) is also ok. This has been criticized for being a practice of witchcraft. I agree.
I heard Chris give his blessing to all of Dan’s responses/rationalizations, without repentance from Dan, for these types of pagan practices, while turning the tables on other discernment ministries. Not that there aren’t bad ones out there. There most certainly are! But that is not the topic at hand that needs to be dealt with. Let’s stay on topic!
A perfect opportunity was given for the gospel to be presented when Chris thoughtfully and consistently asked Kimball as he does with all guests of his show, “What does it mean when Christ proclaimed, ‘It is finished,’ on this cross?” A soft ball question for a ‘pastor’ and his answer was highly lacking of any scriptural text and fumbly bumbly with Dan asking, “Well, if that’s what you meant?” As if he was unsure of his answer! How could the question be made any simpler and clearer? ”What did Christ mean when He said, ‘It is finished,’ on the cross?” I encourage us to take every opportunity, obvious or not so obvious, to share the gospel in boldness and confidence. By His Spirit, we can! Shouldn’t a pastor, in particular, be really good at this?
This interview, much like Chris’ report on the Ed Young Jr.’s response to the local news about his private plane, was more condemning than the original report. Now, we know there is no repentance in the heart of Dan Kimball and that he agrees with a statement of faith with another false movement, Lausanne… with Chris’ endorsement.
“Out of the mouth flows what is in the heart,” indeed, Chris and Dan. I do agree with you on that biblical truth.
“The first to plead his case SEEMS right, UNTIL another comes and examines him.” ~Pro 18:17
I encourage this hard working pirate, Chris Rosebrough, who we love and care for, in Christ, to take a step down from the helm of his discernment ship, for how ever long it needs to be, and humbly go to our Lord and Savior, Jesus. His discernment is lacking of late and causing confusion in the Body of Christ. Dan Kimball is a false-movements-in-the-Church hopper who I would also like to encourage with Col 1:10-11, which is possible if he is one of God’s own. But firstly, I would encourage him in 2 Cor 13:5, as well as myself, and all who profess to be a believer, to be sure to do the same. Otherwise, 1 Jn 2:4 applies. I pray that Chris’ statement, “Where I make errors, I have to repent and change what I do,” will be the case for Chris as well as for each of us, as the Lord leads us, in all areas of our lives, so that we will be counted as faithful, by God’s grace, being an example to all believers and walking in a manner worthy of the Lord and His gospel, for His Name.
-Karla Tadler
CHECK THIS OUT! An Excellent Episode of Crosstalk, POST F4F INTERVIEW, with host Ingrid Schlueter and guest Deborah Dombrowski of Lighthouse Trails. Together they examine and expose Dan Kimball’s work, a “Bridger” to the heretical Emergent Church and their mysticism practices. Others discussed include Brian McLaren, Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Leonard Sweet, Frank Viola, etc.
The New Mystics by John Crowder (Bad Fruit)
Biblical Resources:
Crowder’s Demonic Pulpit in Action
Blasphemous Terms Made Popular by Crowder and Todd Bentley, The New Apostolic Reformation
